In 1939, the first member of Cherryland Electric Cooperative signed up for service. It didn’t take long before that home was alive with light, appliances and entertainment. The mission of Cherryland was born that year, and it has continued to grow for almost eight decades.
Today, we find ourselves contemplating a new service that could be as life changing as that first light bulb and radio in 1939. Specifically, we are talking about fiber optic broadband. This technology offers super fast speeds for all of a home or business’s daily internet needs. It involves the use of plastic or glass cables that allow for the transfer of data near the speed of light. This is something that standard copper wires used in traditional broadband connections obviously cannot do.
A few months ago, I was approached by a local group who was hopeful that Cherryland might get involved with bringing in this high-speed fiber optic cable to the Grand Traverse region as many cooperatives in the country are doing right now. I politely told them that I didn’t think an investment that is estimated to be $2,200 per household (multiplied by 35,000 meters – holy cow!) was worth the risk.
Cherryland employees have spent my entire 13-plus years at the cooperative working to improve our reliability and maintain affordable rates. Today, our reliability is at an all-time high and our rates are lower than our largest neighboring utility. This was done, in part, after divesting the cooperative of propane, the internet and cellular business ventures from our past. Is it time to spread out into what could be an important venture for our region or is it time sit tight and “do what we do best?”
As we look around the country, other electric cooperatives are seeing success with their fiber ventures. As was the case of electricity after the Great Depression, there is nobody willing to serve the rural areas of the country. This has always been at the core of the cooperative family. Thus, many think it is our “duty” or “obligation” to provide fiber to rural areas. Being a cooperative employee for my entire career, it is hard to disagree. It is also hard to disagree with the financial risk. Thus, I am honestly standing at a fork in the road.
Recently, I was presented with a potential game changer in this dilemma. To meet ever increasing federally-mandated reliability standards, Wolverine Power Cooperative will be installing fiber optic cable to all 16 substations in Cherryland’s service territory in the coming years. Thus, this “magical” speed of light cable will eventually be at our doorstep in every part of our service territory.
Therefore, Wolverine and its member cooperatives are doing a joint feasibility study to see if some sort of partnership or statewide fiber optic project makes sense. This study could take four to six months.
We are not moving at the speed of light by any means. Instead, we are taking a cautious and calculated look into fiber optic broadband. There are many issues to address and questions to answer in the months ahead. The debate about cooperative “obligation” or “duty” can wait until after we take a close look at a potential business plan and feasibility study.
Sure hope this happens…so sick of Charter Cable’s virtual monopoly for high-speed internet service in Leelanau County. Looking forward to hearing where my address is on the priority list for this service.
Great idea. Why don’t you also consider cable tv and give Spectrum some competition?
Only if this new service can compete with cable internet in cost and speed (I already pay too much for what I get). do I believe this is worth looking into.
This is very awesome news and honestly can’t happen soon enough. We are in a very rural area with very limited service for internet. Plus Cherryland has such good customer service I would love to deal with you guys for internet over anyone else! Thanks!
Are there any specifics as to how this will/may benefit customers beyond more responsive and dependable electrical service and will it be independent of existing services?
There are no specifics. We are simply doing a feasibility study, nothing more at this time. There is absolutely no guarantee that we will move forward.
If its not cheaper than charter, many internet customer simply are not going to switch. Charter internet is fast enough for nearly 75% off all businesses and residential customers. Fiber optic just wouldnt be that much faster to pay the extra money for. Just my 2 cents 🙂
We want Cherryland Electric to supply fiber based internet service ASAP. We only want internet service, not cable TV, phone service, etc. Any projections on what the fee would be for internet only fiber? Thanks,
There are no projections. This is simply an announcement that we are looking into the possibilities. It will be 3-6 months before we have the results of the feasibility study. We will send out a report on the feasibility study after it has been completed. There is no guarantee that we will ever move forward.
When’s the estimated date of Completion of Fiber Optic Broadband in Traverse City & Cost?
There is no estimated completion date. It is far too early to estimate a cost. This is simply an announcement that Cherryland is looking into the possibilities of offering a service. There is no guarantee it will happen. It will take 3-6 months to complete the feasibility study.
I am a senior citizen living in a 700sq. ft. apt with high electr. bills, how will this new service help me?
We are simply exploring the possibilities. There is no guarantee that we will move forward. However, if we do, the benefit to you might be better outage reporting and outage notification through fiber connected to your meter.
Would this include cable tv and internet? We would love to support Cherry land electric in this endeavor. Tired of Charter not having competition. Go get em Cherryland!!!
It would include internet. Cable TV remains to be seen. However, please no that there is no guarantee that we will move forward. Cherryland is simply looking into the possibility, nothing more.
This is hopeful. But what I would appreciate more is a natural gas line connection.
Fiber Optic broadband would be great to have but at a cost of 77million dollars the feasibility study seems like the wisest thing to do. Where I live right now I can not get anything but DSL internet service and Direct TV satellite service and it sure would be great to have other options but it would also have to be a reasonable price of course.
Wish you nothing but the best of luck in this endeavor.
Russ R.
P.S.
Say hi to Steve W. there for me. 🙂
I hope the feasibility works out… We are not far out in the boonies by any means (Bennett Rd near the resort) but we have zero options for high speed internet without significantly limiting the usability with data caps (cellular and satellite). Please bring us fiber!! Even if we, as coop members, must help defray costs!
Finally! If you can be competitive with CHARTER, it would work for us
The government-owned Electric Power Board (EPB) in Chattanooga, Tennessee (where I’m originally from) added fiber optic Internet and TV for power customers a number of years ago. The high speeds of their Internet service have turned Chattanooga into a hotbed of development for Internet companies attracted to the area for world-class, affordable, super high speed connections.
In addition to giving cable companies a competitor and residential customers a choice, what they did there has been an absolute boon for business and the economy of that city. The impact and benefit on businesses here should also be factored into any decisions about expanding Cherryland’s services into Internet access.
I’m all for it here in Lake Ann.
Big difference in meter density from Chattanooga to Cherryland. A city like Chattanooga probably has upwards of 50 meters per mile of electric line. Cherryland has only 11. Thus, the feasibility study is critical to our decision on moving forward or not. Lots of work and due diligence to come before any decision is final. The encouragement is appreciated.
They do have greater population density and a higher overall population, but their service area extends well outside the city of Chattanooga into more rural areas and they provide the service to all customers.
Of course it might be subsidized for the smaller population areas by the denser population areas, so it’s not the same situation as Cherryland.
My main point was to highlight the benefit it’s had on the business community there and the economy, by adding high speed fiber Internet to electric service.
The electrification of rural areas is a totally different beast than internet access. Wire was the only way to electrify. Internet can be delivered by cellular, wifi and satellite. With new methods being developed.
The $2,200 average will be significantly higher in rural or remote areas, and where underground cables are in place. Cherry picking the high density, above ground, service might make sense, but the costly locations are probably better served by existing options.
We have recently got access throigh coli for high speed at a reasonable cost, and where there was no option a year ago. A year ago we only had satellite or verizon cellular, now a new option exists. These developments will continue.
Wire seems like a loser in these times.
The $2200 average was taken from a very rural and remote electric cooperative who is installing fiber daily at this time. You make a very valid point about new technology. It is obviously a very major concern.
I would like to see another option to Charter. I believe hi speed internet could and most
likely can be provided to myself and other coop members at reasonable pricing. I encourage
you to look at this service very closely. If broadband TV service would help make it easier to
do then add that to the package.
We live in Kings Court and certainly would welcome access to a reliable and relatively inexpensive internet source!
This is great and as someone who works in IT, the future of everything is cloud based Internet. Bandwidth will continue to be a big deal for the future and fiber is definitely the way to go. I would love to have the option for Fiber in TC!
I am a consumer of your electricity, not internet service. This portion of the company, should it be enacted, needs to be entirely segregated from the financials of the electrical service. In other words, another division of the company must be created which is detached from the electric cooperative in every financial, practical, and managerial sense. My main concern as a consumer is cost per kW. I shouldn’t be subjected to inflated costs for laying the infrastructure for services I am not part of. I would like to see our cooperative invest in cost-lowering measures for electrical services. Increased energy production via wind turbines in Leelanau, Benzie could provide tons of KW for consumers. We could encourage rebates for solar energy systems –both businesses and homeowners could help feed the grid. Also, monitoring lines via UAS–unmanned aerial systems could help to lower costs of maintenance and inspections. Let’s focus on 21st century, efficient energy for consumers!
I agree with your segregation comments. IF we move forward with any type of venture, it will have to be self sustaining. Cherryland’s board and employees have worked too long and hard to keep our rates where they are. We have no intention of jeopardizing that hard work.
I fully support and eagerly await a high speed internet via electric cooperatives.
I pay $64 a month for my internet service from Charter, and I would happy to switch over to your service. The one thing to worry about is what are large companies like Google, Facebook, and other creative companies planning in that area.
Fiber optic cable service in our part of the world the great. Would you be able to offer home telephone service?
Please keep us informed are your plans…….
I echo the sentiment of many other comments already posted. I sincerely hope this initiative is executed. I am also tired of Charter being the only wired internet service provider in my area. I am installing an HD antennae at my home and converting to streaming services for tv programming. I would love to switch from Charter for internet also. Competition is the only dynamic that will force improvement of cost and/or quality of products or services. In a severely under served market such as this (single option), I believe there is great opportunity Cherryland. Also, Cherryland has a very well respected brand identity in our region. That positive identity alone will enable a large capture of market share in this service offering. Couple that with a service offering superior to Charter’s option and I would predict capturing 80% market share for this service within three years, even at a slightly higher price. Good luck!
Yes, get fiber optic installed. Charter is a ripoff.
With what appears to be the ever increasing use of wireless (mobile) devises by a large portion of the populace, the up and coming younger generation in particular, and the ever increasing introduction of new and improved mobile devises, does it make sense to invest large sums of money in a technology that could quite conceivably be obsolete in a very short?
This is what we are trying to find out. Home service vs mobile service. The future seemingly appears to be mobile but there is still much activity inside the home. There are also utility advantages to connecting our meters to fiber. The jury is still out as to whether or not the cost will be justified. Thus, we are looking at every angle we can in hopes of making a decision that will fit our future.
Wireless is great but also illegal or risky for some uses. Home office based businesses holding medical data, legal data, and credit card processing would all be at increased risk with wireless services. I think fiber or BPL offer a more secure service and access points can be added inexpensively in the home.
This would be a great thing to see happen! I think you would be surprised how many of us “rural’ customers would jump to get it!
I live in rural Thompsonville and have internet through the phone company that serves this area, they also are installing fiber optics as quickly as it is feasible. They haven’t reach our location yet but they are getting close. Instead of Cherryland spending the monies to bring fiber optics to our location it would help us better to improve the electric service to prevent the many power outages that plaque us both summer and winter these can be very costly to the neighborhood taking out appliances and electrical devices that cannot withstand the multiple blinking of the power source because a tree limb has came down on the lines. Not all of us have homeowners insurance that will cover these losses.
Will installing the fiber optic cable help? I’m not a real techy, but from what I understand you can have a line as big as a culvert and it won’t make any difference to the resulting delivery speed if the lines leading out aren’t enlarged as well. We are currently using CenturyTel’s pone lines to access internet. My home internet speed is supposed to be a paltry 1.5. Most of the time the delivery speed is less than 1. We are at the end of a private road and it is noticeable when the neighbors are all home for the evening — definitely affects the delivery and sending. There are many times when I can’t upload files for my work and have had to drive to my office to get things done that I should have been able to do from home. Cable is not an option for us. Leelanau County recently sent out a survey asking about wireless service in specific areas. Would love to see the county set up county wide service.
Ultimately, we are talking about fiber to the home. The first step is to the substation. The feasibility study will look at providing service to individual homes. Thus, the culvert could be huge. There is still work to be done and today, we can’t guarantee this project will move forward. Simply doing our due diligence and gathering member input prior to making a decision at some point in 2017.
If you build, I will come. ☺
I live in a very rural area and cable will never be available in my lifetime. I am paying over $60.00 each month for very little internet allowance from Dish Satellite. We cannot stream youtube videos, movies or tv shows. One movie will use all the data for the month. Even if we pay for the maximum of data costing over $120.00 per month we still could not stream movies. Unlimited data use is not available. It sure would be wonderful to have unlimited fast internet service at a reasonable cost. Please don’t leave out the remote rural areas!
I use Charter. Their service used to be great, it no longer is. So a change is welcome. As far as Cherry land, in the 7 years I’ve owned my home, I’ve lost power for a total of about an hour. That’s reliability! I will gladly pay you for my internet in Interlochen as well.
You had sent us a email last month asking us if we had interest in the broadband fiber cable here at our home…… We reply most definitely…… So again we hope to read more about this service. We will with out any doubt be one of Cherryland COOP first customers to get this high speed internet here in the Marilla area.
Our current provider Kalvea Telephone is outrageously priced and their “service” is not a service at all………
Coming from a larger market were there was competition (Comcast vs ATT Uverse) they did not compete by lowering prices instead it was about offering more services for the money. That would be my concern here. Instead of offering me competitive pricing I suspect it would be about a faster service. My Charter 60 gb service is fast enough, offer me a better price and I’m all in.
I applaud your efforts and hope that we see this built out sooner rather than later. I think a lot of people fail to recognize the importance of having more data highways to connect us and are focused simply on the cost to them. Our lives rely more and more each day on the ability to transmit data quickly, securely, and efficiently. Sometimes additional costs are offset by more speed and efficiency, but of course that’s a personal economic issue. We are definitely seeing more and more stresses on the current providers with slowing speeds during peak times, so this would be welcome. You’re in a much better position to analyze the cost/benefit than I am, however I do wonder if and when wireless providers will be able to provide similar types of services at competitive costs. My vote is yes and I’m willing to pay more than I pay my current provider for what would be better service.
add it and they will come.
Even if you had to mitigate your ROI by having the customers invest something also, this is something we all need. Thanks for looking into this.
Dear Tony:
The idea of fiber optic connections would be a nice idea. Now comes the “BUT”. If the cost to put in the system would be borne by all the members of the co-op and only be used by a few, then I would not be in favor of adding this system. Many of the families of Cherryland are retired and may not be able to have added charges or raised rates added to their electric bill. So my question is; would the adding of fiber optic service cost the Co-op (and members) more per month and also cost for the service?
That would not be my intent. IF Cherryland, your cooperative, gets into the fiber business, it should not be subsidized by electric rate payers. A fiber business should have to stand on its own 2 feet. Two separate businesses and two separate rates.
I think this is a great idea that will soon become reality! We’re all in!
This is great news. Much of your service area is either not covered by any broadband service or have very limited and over priced offerings. Charter and other good carriers are not options for a large part of your customer base.
I have one question, have you also considered BPL which can achieve very high speeds and uses the infrastructure already in place? It might be a much more economical investment and also lower maintenance costs since the infrastructure is already maintained. Sharing the costs of maintaining the lines could actually lead to a reduction in electric costs.
I’ve looked at it but honestly, it is old technology. I don’t believe it to be as reliable nor as fast as fiber. Thus, why put in the infrastructure that is outdated as you put it in? I would rather do nothing.
In one comment you tout your great record on dependable electric service but in another you talk as though your infrastructure is already not dependable and getting older. This is confusing at best.
From the people I know who beta tested BPL and those who actually used it longer term the dependability was as good as their electric supply and speeds were far in excess of anything currently offered by cable or phone companies to their customers. What speeds would you be considering for customers?
Our electric service is reliable and dependable. All I meant by my comment was that BPL is not the newest technology. Over and over again, I am told that people want the fastest speed possible (at the lowest cost too, this is where I get confused). Nobody is telling us that they want “fast enough” speed. Fiber is basically the speed of light and broadband over power line is not. With the saturation of cable in our service territory, a fiber venture will have to compete with the Charters of the world. BPL simply doesn’t do that. So, it’s really not something I/we can consider if we are going to have a venture that attracts enough customers to stand on its own. Then, there is the practical fact that we will have fiber at each substation in our future to meet higher electric reliability standards. So, this too, plays into the factor of looking very closely at what else we can do with the fiber network.
Thanks for the discussion. I agree with some of your points and disagree with others. I cannot wait to see if or how this goes forward. Keep up the good work and thank you again for keeping us informed and considering our input in your decisions.
I cannot wait for this to become a reality in Leelanau County. Hope you can make it work financially.
I agree that the time has come to embrace the ever growing need for fiber optic broadband to every household and business. Very costly but more and more essential year after year. It is time to make that move and to begin the process that will bring fiber optic broadband to all our rural communities and businesses.
Tony Esper
We really hope this happens. My husband and I are a young family in the area that works for fully distributed (remote) companies. Charter literally ends on the other side of the lake (we can see where it ends!) and we can’t get it. There is literally NO SERVICE PROVIDER in Traverse City that can meet our data size, speed, and usability needs that we can get at our house, which forced us to come up with a very unique solution. If Traverse City wants to attract young professionals to the area and more industry – it HAS TO GET MORE HIGH SPEED INTERNET OPTIONS. You can’t expect people to live here and industries to move here permanently if the area can’t provide quality internet.
Can’t wait; we struggle to get high speed internet around Brethren, MI and this would a pleasant change. Will sign up as soon as available.
August 10, 2003
NPI may be close to seeing black
Wireless firm has 40,000 subscribers
By BILL ECHLIN
Record-Eagle staff writer
TRAVERSE CITY – NPI Wireless is growing – and growing closer to making a profit – but the last couple of years have been tough and the company faces more challenges.
During the last five years, the Traverse City company has signed on more than 40,000 subscribers, built 372 cellular antenna sites, and jumped from serving 13 counties to serving 38 in northern and central Lower Michigan.
Sales went from $2.5 million in its first full year, 1998, to a projected $22 million this year. Even so, NPI is not yet in the black, said chief financial officer Jerry Heim.
“We’ve made substantial gains in that direction,” he said, adding that the company is operationally profitable, making money on a day-to-day basis, but not when debt service, depreciation and other factors are included.
Company founder Frank Noverr, who’s also majority owner and president, said hoped-for deals have fallen through over the past two years. But he said the future looks good, though capital is still hard to find.
Wireless was one of the industries that suffered huge drops in stock prices over the last three years. NPI Wireless is a closely held private company, but its value for borrowing purposes and to its investors was hit hard along with the publicly traded companies.
Dobson Communications, known in northwest lower Michigan as Cellular One, for instance, saw its stock price plummet from above $30 a share three years ago to 16 cents last October. It has since recovered some of that loss, trading between $6 and $7 a share so far this month.
In response to the drop in value of NPI, Cherryland Electric Cooperative of Grawn, which invested $3.2 million in NPI Wireless in 1997, wrote off the entire asset value from its books last year, causing the cooperative to post a $1.5 million loss.
Cherryland’s managers believe the investment will recover some value but wanted to inform members the investment had little value.
Well said. This is exactly why I am cautious about a fiber project. I walked into this mess in 2003. I told this story to people in my office who were pushing for fiber before the Wolverine announcement. We absolutely cannot repeat our history in this regard. In the NPI situation, Cherryland had only a 10% interest and thus, no control over any decision. IF we move forward, this critical error will not be repeated. The fact that we will have fiber at our substations is the only reason I felt compelled to do the feasibility study. We can’t let fear of the past force us into a bad decision. Thanks for sharing.
I for one hope you proceed with this venture.
I have contacted Charter a number of time to inquire on any extension plans along U.S. 31. I only live 2 blocks in and no cable. HughesNet wanted a $100 a month for 100 gigs of data. 1.8 meg a second. CenturyLink is DSL $80 a month for 1.2 megs a second (this is sadly my current option)
Just because we live outside the small bubble we have zero options for Internet and cable. I would gadly do a two year agreement to pay back the $2,200 for fast Internet.
Please keep moving forward.
Yes I agree it would be great if we could get some fiber optic service out here, We do have dsl but very slow and it would help if we had some where else to look for service. Due to limited income it might be to costly for us but could be some thing to look forward to.Terry Tolar Sr.
This is incredible news! I only hope and pray it happens as soon as possible! Thank you for your insight and continuing efforts to provide us all with the very best service.
I have great confidence in Cherryland Electric as a company truly dedicated to its customers, exhibiting integrity and a desire to provide the best possible service. I would be very interested in the results of your feasibiity study.
This is good news. Any competition to Charter is in the best interest of customers. I would much rather support Cherryland Elec., my company, than a monopoly like Charter.
Please do this! My only option is our hot spot and its not great on the pocket book
I think this is a great beginning in having high speed internet service available. We recently switched from Dish (TV and internet) to Speedconnect (a direct line of site to tower service) and are saving $100 a month. Our current cost is $60 a month for unlimited data. Although the speed isn’t like fiber, we get 10 meg download and 2+ meg upload which is fine for our usage. Much better than Dish ever was.
There is currently a group, Leelanau Peninsula Economic Foundation (LPEF) Tech Committee, taking a survey of county residents and businesses to see the feasibility of providing service throughout the county.
With technology changing daily, I applaud Cherryland in taking a timely, methodical approach to see what might be workable in our mostly rural area.
I agree with the others on Charter’s cable cost ~ it’s astronomical and we can barely afford it but have to have it ~ if we could have an affordable alternative I certainly would give it a look.
Go Cherryland … I would heartily welcome a more reliable and trustworthy competator to our broadband market. Quite frankly my only choice is Charter Communications and they have an abisimal customer service rating. I would even be willing to pay a little bit more to increase speed and relability, and have a local contact for customer service. On a different note, I look forward to the increased reliability of the move to underground electrical feed on W. Long Lake Rd.
Dear Mr. Anderson
Please support the installation of the highest possible speed optical fiber cable to each Cherryland Electric member.
Both my wife and I are 70, and have the historical knowledge of a time before “internet”. Today our kids and grand kids use internet for work and personal use all hours every day.
This summer our son, who lives in Portland OR and whose job is to manage the servers for an international corporation, was able to spend a work week with us in Leelanau at our summer home.
He works from home for his employer, and is able to work from any high speed internet connected location worldwide with agreement of his boss. Since our location is in a dead zone between Omena and Northport he had to travel to locations which had Wi-fi connections. Timing of service, signal strength and user overload were all problems.
Locations without internet connectivity are disadvantaged, and will be greatly more so each year.
We fully support high speed optical fiber to all Cherryland members.
The world is changing. People around the globe are either connected or not. Jobs today and in the future require complete connectivity.
An absolutely brilliant move!
Not more than a couple of decades ago, having 8MB of memory in your computer made you a “power user.” Today it takes 24GB (24,576MB) to reach that status. Similar comparisons can be made for drive space. In the same past two decades television has gone from 480i to 1080p to 2160p, pushing well over 4-million pixels. There are tone of reasons why the proverbial ‘need for speed’ on the Internet only continues to grow. Satellite Internet has gotten better, as has most copper wire DSL. Wireless (cell service) Internet continues to improve in speed and other services are popping up here and there. All said, fiber optic cable and DSL service is where the foreseeable future lies when it comes to speed at a reasonable cost.
As one of the uber-low density co-op members (just five houses in our area) our current choices in high-speed Internet service are either slow-poke DSL service (3Mbps is hardly considered high-speed these days) or ungodly expensive metered cell service (a “deal” at $375 for 100GB/month with AT&T). I’ve investigated every possible alternative including satellite, cable (Charter only wants $17,000 to install a line – I’m not kidding), wireless, and even private networks. I’d be happy to pay $2,200 to get high-speed fiber optic Internet service. The next key questions that need to be addressed are [1] metered vs unlimited service and [2] pricing.
Having attended an Internet conference that represented every conceivable ISP was hosted in Frankfort earlier this year, it is clear that there is a ton of movement and innovation with respect to Internet Provider Services. All are aware of the need for continually increasing performance and reliability. There is no question that fiber optic provides the fastest and most reliable service currently and undoubtedly for the long-term future. One presenter mentioned a community located in Michigan’s thumb that provides a 1TB (yes, read terabyte) speed unlimited data usage service for only $80/month! While a number of people shouted out “can I move there,” I’d rather stay in CEC’s area for a host of reasons.
Tony, I commend you and the board for looking into the possibility of bringing fiber optic broadband to your customers. While fiber optic may not be the overall game-changer that electricity was, it unquestionably presents itself as the preferred Internet platform for the future. That platform will dramatically change the way we consume not only our Internet data service, but health, security, phone, and television services as well. I’d much rather have CEC running it than anyone else I can think of. Sign me up — seriously, I’m in 100%.
Please hurry! We have no choices for internet.
Please hurry. We don’t have any choices for internet.
Please, please, please make this service a reality! My family is sooo tired of the slow, inconsistent, data-limited service provided by satellite vendors. We live on a populated road and can’t figure out why satellite service is still our only option.
This would be an amazing addition to the Grand Traverse area. It would give nearly everyone who has Cherryland service now the opportunity to get high-speed internet too. Great idea; hopefully it happens.
Fiber optics may have been viable 15/20 years ago, in it’s youth. I can connect to Italy or Russia in less than a second ( i.e. video poker ). New technologies are developed daily. Prices for services will be less. Would you be buying the land to run the cable or leasing it? Do not bed with Frank N. who owns the easements to run FO along the LTA. Sorry. I think you should do what you are doing, keeping our rates at an affordable level.
Are you willing to build infrastructure, manpower, and spending multiple millions (as a co-op, our money) on a product that has a questionable future, possibly being outmoded before being fully implemented.
We would not be buying any land nor partnering with individuals who may or may not have easements. Cherryland Electric Cooperative has easements for all of its overhead and underground line. We grant pole attachments to cable providers on a regular basis. Fiber optic would simply be a cable attached to our poles or placed into our trenches. The feasibility study will help us decide whether or not we are willing to spend multiple millions on this technology. We are looking into its future potential and future technologies.
It sounds like a great service to your members (us). I too would need to study the cost in relation to the ROI. Would it benefit the Co-op as a whole, or just benefit a few? Keep vigilant in the study, and please keep us informed as to how it is going.
Thank you for bringing this to us as a group.
Like your approach!!
Looking forward to hearing the results! I would love an option. All we have now is the local phone company, and they limit the options we have for internet because we don’t want T.V. or other additional services. I pay a higher price because I use less.
Of course you should move into the fiber business!
Awesome! The sooner the better.
Some good points being made about both the need in rural areas and the cost and potentially competitive technologies. (COLI, Speedconnect, Elevate… et al, with some wisps being better than others….)
Makes me wonder if a hybrid approach would be better cost performance. Fiber to the substation as a backbone and partner with a wisp to use Cherryland poles to form mesh networks. Elevate.net guy Kris Shafer is one who has talked about that kind of deployment (I’ve been talking to ANYone who might get service to people who like forests).
At any rate I fully support a fiber rollout, and would consider covering a substantial part of that household price tag.
I really appreciate Cherryland’s transparency in advising us, the consumer, of the vision and possible direction of the company that has been so important to all of us.
If I can get both home electrical service and high speed Internet from you, and therefore, tell Charter/Spectrum to get out of my house, then I’m all for it!!
Charter markets their ‘deal’ and then screws the customer after the time frame expires. Don’t do that, please.
Please let it happen.
I think your “cautious and calculated look” is the very best approach!
I would pay a bit more initially just to stick it to Charter for selling me 60MB and giving me 30MB after my first year “promotion” was over.
The monopoly must be uprooted and a real local coop might be our only hope to defeat the Goliath.
Thank you for your careful approach to this matter. We know you will make the right decision after careful consideration and do what is best for Cherryland members. We are looking forward to faster internet service and hope that Cherryland can supply that for us. We appreciate more reliable service and quicker response times to our outages, and are proud to be Cherryland members. Will be following the progress on this matter very carefully. Thank you.
I used to work as a Network Engineer for a rural telco in Indiana and we deployed a fiber network similar to what you are considering.
I’d be happy to share my experience and advise if you’re interested
I would gladly pay $2200 for a high-speed internet connection. I have only cell data now.
Out of curiosity is Wolverine looking at providing power or data over fiber? POF (Power Over Fiber) is in the very early stages of development and is no where near the stage for practical home use. It is also limited to low energy at this time. If Wolverine is looking at it from the broadband/data angle I think the estimate of $2200 per house hold is way to low. That may cover the cost of providing fiber to a house (assuming trenching cost and the use of armored fiber vs installing innerduct or conduit) but won’t really come close to covering the cost of the end equipment within the house to convert light signals to data. Throw in the fact the average house is wired with coax and possibly CAT 5E network cable the speed advantage offered by fiber is greatly reduced. I think a great follow up to this article would be to provide Cherryland members with information along the lines of what would fiber really do for them in their home? List advantages and disadvantages along with cost information. There is no doubt fiber revolutionized the world of data transmission (ask anyone who went from a dial up 2400 baud modem to a direct connect 10mbs connection). And I believe once the technology is developed it could do the same for energy/electricity. But at this stage I seriously wonder if it is worth investing Cherryland members money??
Wolverine is not looking at providing power over fiber as far as I know today. We are simply looking into how to best utilize the backbone they will have in place once they have all substations lit up. The feasibility plan should shed light on whether or not it is worth investing the money. Stay tuned. We will provide updates as significant progress is made.
I really hope you do take this risk. My family would be switching immediately. We are dealing with a company who could care less about its customers and has barricaded progress for many years. It would be nice to actually be able to get what we pay for rather than having our net cut out most of the time.
I love the idea of having an alternative to the monopoly that Charter has on internet service. I also agree with you, it’s best to proceed with caution. If the monthly service is close to that of Charter’s pricing, I’d switch in a minute!
Yes, we have been waiting for this!!! Finally ,we live in the country and will welcome great internet service. Count me in. I feel that fiber-optics will take us out of the dark ages with this slower than slow internet we have today.
Let us know when we can expect this change and we will be more than willing to have TV, Internet and anything else that is offered to make our lives better.
COUNT ME IN 🙂
You can’t go wrong with this venture The rual community will jump at this opportunity please shift into high gear on this issue
I will be cautious about any new endeavor from Cherryland Electric, I still remember when Cherryland had gotten into the propane gas business and then sold out to several different gas companies leaving me hanging and having to deal with all the problems of the other companies rules and regulations. High speed internet only if it’s bigger, better, faster and cheaper than Charter, maybe get some cable T.V. options also.
My wife and I recently moved from the St. Louis metro region to find that only Charter Internet was available in our new area. I had called AttUverse for FiberOptic service, since I had great customer service experiences from them in the past. Multiple representatives told me that the FiberOptic service was not available in our area of Grawn. 2 days after installing Charter, I received a congratulatory letter from Uverse stating that the service is available now. After calling them to confirm, I find that it is not available. I also still get tons of spam/junk mail from Charter after already having their service. Multiple times I have vented frustration over their junk mail, unplanned outages and technicians that seemed not to want to do their job in the first place. We need a better option. We need better service. We need a better representation of service that we are paying for. Cherryland, please get this up and running to your local markets and expand to rural areas. Technology has blossomed enough for higher demand of this service than you may be anticipating. We live in an area that has WiFi access on the beaches of the Bay and downtown as well. There are countless places that I have lived that do not support such technology, yet still have more options than cable internet. Fiber Optic was touted as the wave of the future over a decade ago. The future is now!
that would be nice. I’ve had dial-up for 20 years and can’t even buy a new computer because newer computers have no dial-up capability. I live in a dead spot of leelanau county with no cable tv. I would happily pay whatever to get some semblance of high-speed internet.
Very nice.
Charter is the only thing here, and each year it seems there’s more and more outages, while the price goes up rather than down over time like technology used to.
I would be interested in the feasibility of Internet services from Cherryland Electric
Thank you. I am so thankful you are looking into this subject with the possible outcome that we here on Rennie Lake will be able to receive cable/high speed internet service. We are on the south side of Rennie Lake, on KantZ Road in a small area that Michigan Charter refuses to serve even though it’s cable is less than 1/2 mile away. We must receive our internet service from Verizon bouncing our signal off of t heir cell tower ( at least that is how I understand it ). We also have a satellite dish installed by Direct TV through which we receive our TV signal. Both services serve our basic needs but it would be very nice to have an all in one service provider that we would cooperatively own. After adding on to our 65 year old cabin a few years ago, cable was run into the house but the loose cable hangs outside on the telephone pole waiting for it to be tied into a cable company’s wiring!
Thank you again for considering this alternative for us. I eagerly await a progress report!!
Most sincerely,
Carolyn Hahne
1421 Kantz Road
Traverse City, MI 49696
we live in northport and after countless hours searching for the best available internet service, we were forced with satellite which is slow and expensive. my wife and I farm but also work mainly online for sales and finance and really need high speed internet to work effectively. It is limiting but we are living with it for now, but would jump at a chance for high speed internet with large data. Personally, I don’t care about TV, it is the work and internet services (eg: streaming music, movies, news) which is valuable to us. Please truly consider providing this service to the rural areas and not just in the cities and town.
Oh please oh please make this happen, be the leaders that you are and rescue your rural customers!
I would really be excited to have this option if you could come up with a way to be close or less than I pay now. This satellite method suck that I am hooked up with really right now if I could at least charter in here it would help . but it is not available to us and the speed of light sounds good especially with this new T V programing that is coming available with those new curved T V’s on the market today . The only way you can get a program that looks like and does like it was designed to do is to buy a dvd that will allow you to see it like you are supposed to see it . I realize that this is only for internet but I would think that T V should be on your mind at the same time .
Progress leads to a more reliable product which once “embraced” will be cost effective. Remember when the first Beta VCR was $1400.00? I do! I applaud Cherryland for even considering it.
I wld like to see this internet; however, I agree the current cost is way over my budget. It wld be interesting to see what changes w/ this opportunity will come from Wolverines trail.
It wld also be nice to see some competition for Charter/Spectrum. I quit my service w/ them back in 2006 & haven’t missed the cable at all.
looking for high speed internet
I think it is a great idea. Too many homes do not have access to high speed internet in the area. I would to be involved to help support this.
This would be a godsend, can’t happen fast enough. Charter is an impersonal monopoly that does not take care of their customers at all. Love your company!
For all of us impatient customers, are you able to give us any update on this? My cottage awaits.
We will be receiving a report on the feasibility study from the contractor on December 15th. After that, we will take a few weeks to analyze the report. Looking at our board schedule and other pertinent issues, the board of directors will not get a report until February of 2017. So, it will be a couple months before we have some idea of a plan. If I owned your cottage, I would settle in for a long wait. When/if we move forward, it will be in small incremental steps over a period of years not months. I realize this is not the news you are looking for but it is the reality I see today. We simply can’t risk the financial strength of our electric operations on a fiber venture. It will have to stand on its own from the start.
I went to a meeting tonight where Traverse City Light and Power presented the results of a year-long feasibility study regarding construction of a high-speed fiber Internet network throughout the city. The study presented a couple of options for the construction and operation of the high-speed fiber Internet network. All the options presented in the report indicate that they are feasible and financially viable.
Jonathan Chambers (formerly Chief of the Office of Strategic Planning for the FCC) and Randy Klindt of Conexon presented their findings. They work exclusively with rural electric cooperatives to bring fiber to the home in rural communities. They were originally contacted by a group of 8 cooperatives in the state (including Cherryland) to do a feasibility study – and then also brought in by TCL&P to do the same.
While at the FCC, Chambers was tasked with studying ways to bring fiber to rural areas. It turns out that because 85% of the cost is in the poles and access to homes, electric utilities are uniquely positioned to be able to deliver fiber to the home in rural areas in the most cost efficient way possible – a more economically viable way than literally any other entity. If the utility wants to only establish the network and lease access (to 3rd party providers), the system can pay for itself in two years. If the utility wants to become an ISP and offer Internet, television and phone service itself, the pay off is 6-11 years, with higher long term upside. Either can be done in a way that is rate neutral to existing subscribers. In other words, existing subscribers who only have electric service do not have to subsidize Internet service via higher rates. As a matter of fact, it usually ends up going the other way, where revenue from the Internet business allows the utility to either maintain or decrease electric rates. Further, the fiber network has additional benefits/cost savings for the electrical system because it allows for a double-dipping with smart grid and smart metering setup – and provides greater stability to the grid due to better component and substation communication. With or without Internet, fiber is an integral part of the future of the electric system.
Rural ISPs all over the country have been doing this successfully for the past half decade – many places with greater geographic complexity, larger scope and less income to support than our area. This is no longer pioneering or theoretical. The numbers are real and the numbers all say you can do it with very little risk.
After much community discussion, the board members of TCL&P appeared to overwhelmingly express their favorability in moving forward building the fiber network in the city, but only having to further consider whether they would want to take on the operation/service side of things.
With all of these benefits and a no-brainer on the economics side, I struggle to find a reason why a cooperative like Cherryland wouldn’t also want to do this.
I have met with Conexon and heard them speak more than once. The Cherryland board of directors will be reviewing a feasibility study they did for us at our February meeting. The trouble at Cherryland is that we have 3,000 miles of line NOT less than 200 as found at TCLP. Our meter count is just over 11 meters per mile. If you use the TCLP numbers in today’s TC Ticker (184 miles and 10,800 customers), you get 58.7 meters per mile. That is 47 more opportunities to sell fiber PER MILE. You state, “Rural ISPs all over the country have been doing this successfully for the past half decade” I challenge anyone to show me an electric cooperative who has made a profit in 5 years of operating a fiber system. But, back to the TCLP difference – TCLP electric customers are 80% commercial while Cherryland is 95% residential. There is a far greater opportunity for profit serving a commercial account with fiber than there is a residential service. Finally, if a business model is seemingly a no brainer proposition, where is private business? When the market seemingly has the ability to provide a service, why should a utility step in to compete? I sincerely appreciate your input. Mr. Chambers is a very convincing individual and there will be many fiber success stories in the decades to come. At Cherryland, we too will make the best decision for our future. Stay tuned for an announcement following our February 20 meeting.
Thanks for the quick response – and also thanks for giving this matter serious attention. I don’t think we can possibly downplay the significance of this decision – and its impact on the economic development and future prosperity of this area we love and call home. Fast and reliable Internet has become essential for modern commerce and communication – every bit as vital as the road systems or electric grids that predate it. Much of today’s business is conducted online, yet we find ourselves in a massive dead zone – incapable of participating. My wife and I moved here three years ago … but we almost didn’t and lack of fast, reliable Internet was the reason why. We are both blessed to have the opportunity to work from home, bringing our careers and an outside economy to an area that we love so dearly, but does not otherwise currently provide compatible career opportunities. I’m a software engineer and I work for a fully distributed company with co-workers across the country. She runs an intellectual property consulting business with clients in the Bay Area and across the world. For us, priorities in life are water, food, shelter and Internet – and in that order. The hoops we had to jump through to make a connection viable where we wanted to live are hoops that most would not jump through. I can think of no better place to live, but I can think of few worse to maintain a successful career for tech and knowledge professionals. Our area has a well documented aging population and one that is highly dependent on service and tourism – but there’s no reason it has to be that way. We can start planting the seeds of a successful economic future. If you build it, they will come!!!
Now, to your questions…
>The trouble at Cherryland is that we have 3,000 miles of line NOT less than 200 as found at TCLP.
I approached Mr. Chambers after the meeting and asked him if what he said about this being able to be done in a rate neutral manner for existing subscribers also applied to Cherryland and the other cooperatives and he said it did. That’s also when he explained to me that the Internet side of the business usually ends up helping maintain or reduce the electric rates eventually. Granted, given meter density, the turn around time could be longer for Cherryland, but it can still be done in a rate neutral way. You also don’t have nearly the competition that exists in TC, so your take rate and new customer acquisition rates would be dramatically higher than in the city. People out here are screaming for a fast and reliable pipe. You would be met with the kind of eager consumer demand afforded to few endeavors.
>You state, “Rural ISPs all over the country have been doing this successfully for the past half decade”
In the above post, you also state “As we look around the country, other electric cooperatives are seeing success with their fiber ventures.” This sounds like we are in agreement.
>I challenge anyone to show me an electric cooperative who has made a profit in 5 years of operating a fiber system.
Conexon cites Co-Mo, which turned a net positive income in 4 years with no federal funding or grants.
>TCLP electric customers are 80% commercial while Cherryland is 95% residential. There is a far greater opportunity for profit serving a commercial account with fiber than there is a residential service.
You can look where the puck is or where the puck is going to be. Fiber could help change those numbers in dramatic ways. Further, many of your customers don’t even have a competitive alternative. You would have a monopoly in many areas. This gives you a dramatic advantage.
>Finally, if a business model is seemingly a no brainer proposition, where is private business?
As stated by Mr. Chambers, 85% of the cost is in the poles and access to homes. You have that. Private business does not. You have an 85% head start on private enterprise – making it a no-brainer for he who possesses the key infrastructure.
> When the market seemingly has the ability to provide a service, why should a utility step in to compete?
The market does not, but with your advantage, you/we do. And, I think you very eloquently stated above, “As was the case of electricity after the Great Depression, there is nobody willing to serve the rural areas of the country. This has always been at the core of the cooperative family.” I could not agree more.
You also state above that “Thus, many think it is our ‘duty’ or ‘obligation’ to provide fiber to rural areas. Being a cooperative employee for my entire career, it is hard to disagree. It is also hard to disagree with the financial risk.” It sounds like you are on board with the merits, but concerned about financial risk. I have not conducted or commissioned my own study, but based on the results provided by the company that Cherryland, TCL&P and seven other co-ops hired, there is no financial risk.
>there will be many fiber success stories in the decades to come.
Mr. Chambers stated that over 40 rural area cooperatives have launched projects in the last 6 months alone. I sincerely hope Cherryland can be just one of many success stories and as an individual with over two decades of experience in information technology, who is deeply invested in the success of our community, I extend my offer to help with that in any way possible.
>Stay tuned for an announcement following our February 20 meeting.
It sounds like member input is only taken at meetings on a quarterly basis, but given the significance of this matter to a member-owned and member-governed organization, I was wondering if this meeting on the 20th will be open to said members?
All good stuff and points taken. There is financial risk however. One cannot invest over $80 million without risk. And, yes, risk is the core of my issue. You were not here 14 years ago when outage response was long and our rates were higher than Consumers Energy. Last year, we had a reliability rate of 99.986% and average residential rates were 10% below CE. I totally get the passion for the internet and the potential economic boon to the area. Before both of those, people want their lights on at an affordable price. Some 30 years in this business has taught me that.
At a cooperative in Wyoming, I started an electrical wiring side business when that rural area had none. It is going today almost 20 years later. At a cooperative in Wisconsin, we opened up a RadioShack franchise to make cell phones available in a rural area not served by the market. After 15 years, it remains the only electric cooperative owned RadioShack in the country. So, I am not adverse to getting outside the box or taking risk. Every venture fits each cooperative in a different way. Success at one cooperative does not guarantee success at another. Again, 30 some years of experience has taught me this.
Board member emails and phone numbers are available at our website. I have some openings the next two days to sit down with anyone who wants to discuss this topic. (email [email protected] or text 231-620-9214) I will also be at the home show at the GT Resort on Saturday from 1-5 pm. Stop by the Cherryland booth and we can chat. There is no public comment period at our February meeting. We went public with the fiber issue some months ago now and have been taking input in all forms and through all venues ever since. I simply don’t see the need for a special member input session at this time.
Regarding risk, this is not a leap of faith. That was my point about this being a successful venture across the country for the past half decade. Cherryland does not have to jump blindly and hope for the best. There are hard numbers and numerous case studies to draw from when assessing risk. All of which clearly indicate that there is no financial risk, but only risk in proper execution. The latter is far easier to mitigate than the former.
I would certainly agree that every venture fits each cooperative in a different way and that success at one cooperative does not guarantee success at another. We’re not talking about one cooperative, though. This is something that is having widespread success across the country in a great number of cooperatives. 40 cooperatives in the past 6 months alone have elected to follow suit in that journey paved by so many others (who already absorbed the risk). We’re not talking about an insignificant sample size. What about Cherryland makes us so different from the inherent diversity found across that spectrum?
I appreciate the efforts on reliability, but I don’t believe that fiber adds anything to risk in that regard. Arguments were made at TCL&P – by TCL&P representatives – that fiber communication between subs and components only helps with reliability and that outages can be identified, mitigated and isolated with a greater degree of precision than now. Smart grids and smart metering are the future in any case and fiber across your electric configuration is an assured part of that. Win-win.
With regard to people wanting their lights on at an affordable price, all of the case studies indicate that folks who only want their lights on do not have to subsidize the folks who also want Internet – and that the opposite is what usually happens.
I didn’t mention it earlier, but I think we also need to take into account the timing and the special opportunity afforded around potential synergy that can be leveraged by other utilities in the area taking part in this in unison. TCL&P sounds all but certain they are moving forward in some form. Imagine the resources, expertise and buying power that can be leveraged by tackling this problem with neighbors. You don’t have to go it alone – risk further mitigated.
>We went public with the fiber issue some months ago now and have been taking input in all forms and through all venues ever since. I simply don’t see the need for a special member input session at this time.
I respectfully disagree. Taking input in isolation is a series of monologues and this deserves a dialog. Folks giving input have not been privy to the findings and I think there would be tremendous value in having member input directly in response to those findings and potential questions/points raised by the board. Last night, TCL&P actually broke their own convention and allowed public input before the board discussion so that public input in response to the presented findings could be taken into account in the board’s discussion. That sort of collective ownership, dialog and transparency is healthy in any discussion – but especially important for a matter so significant to so many.
There is clear risk. We are going to have to agree to disagree on that subject. If there were no risk, somebody would have done it by now. Banks would be tossing out money for such a project with no risk. They are not.
Cherryland’s territory is what makes us unique. A cooperative in Missouri likely doesn’t have the competition that we have. John Chambers, the consultant you listened to, tells us that we have 7,000 meters that are either underserved or not served. This is 20% of the Cherryland system. We have little chance for a take rate of any kind in the other 80%.
Cherryland installed smart meters 10 years ago. We have been further developing our smart grid every year. Fiber would certainly help this in the right areas. There is a potential win-win in some situations.
Getting into fiber so it can subsidize the electric side of the business is not a good bet. I worry about any co-op who gets into it for that reason.
A partnership with TCLP has been discussed and it is something that we would entertain further discussions on. We are waiting to see if they do indeed move forward. I am not as convinced as you are.
Your point on input is taken. It will be a decision of the board as to whether or not they want to release the feasibility study to the public. I will ask them at the February meeting.
Again, thanks for the dialogue.
Apologies in advance for this not being inline with the thread, but there’s no longer a Reply button after your last message.
>If there were no risk, somebody would have done it by now.
Not sure I follow, but plenty of cooperatives have. That’s what I’m talking about – comparing with private enterprise is not apples-to-apples given pole ownership.
>we have 7,000 meters that are either underserved or not served. This is 20% of the Cherryland system. We have little chance for a take rate of any kind in the other 80%.
I would love to see the data behind that. 80% sounds way too high. Besides, a 20% monopoly is still an amazing competitive advantage even if those numbers are accurate. I also don’t believe it’s fair to assume a low take rate where competition exists. Look at the comments above. People hate Charter’s customer service (and they love yours), their prices are too high, upload speed is terrible (vs a symmetrical fiber connection), download speed of fiber can blow current cable capability out of the water and it’s hard to call DSL competition. Based on models presented last night, which use the price point Conexon advocates for all of their studies, you would be offering a faster connection than Charter for less money. To get the base 100mbps package that you could offer for $49, people have to pay Charter $130!!! Even Charter’s 60mbps package costs more than your base 100mbps package could. People will switch for that alone. Anyone who does video conferencing, gaming or file uploading (literally any individual or business engaged in cloud storage) will switch based on the symmetrical upload speed, alone. The best Charter can do for a business customer is a sluggish 7mbps upstream – your base package would be 100mbps. On top of that, you have a dramatic advantage when it comes to new construction – who’s the first company called when a new home goes in – that’s right, it’s you – and guess who also has awesome Internet to offer? We are in a growing area and that is a point not to be discounted. You have so much competitive advantage, it’s not even funny.
>Getting into fiber so it can subsidize the electric side of the business is not a good bet. I worry about any co-op who gets into it for that reason.
Definitely not the point I was trying to make. It’s not the reason you get into fiber. It’s the piece of mind that going into fiber won’t come at the cost of existing electric subscriber subsidization (which seems to be your biggest concern).
>A partnership with TCLP has been discussed and it is something that we would entertain further discussions on.
This is great to hear. It would be an enormous lost opportunity to ignore the partnership potential.
>We are waiting to see if they do indeed move forward. I am not as convinced as you are.
I’ll be honest. I did not expect it going in, but I was there last night. I saw their faces and I heard their words. The response from the board was OVERWHELMINGLY positive and of the four options being discussed, they only took the 4th option – not moving forward – off the table. This morning’s Ticker backs me up on this. Future discussion is only centered on which model to adopt.
>Your point on input is taken. It will be a decision of the board as to whether or not they want to release the feasibility study to the public.
Releasing the feasibility study afterward would also be nice, but what I am requesting is an open door meeting on February 20th so that members can attend. What would that hurt? TCL&P opened their doors to this discussion and they’re not member owned. This seems like a reasonable request.
>Again, thanks for the dialogue.
Likewise. I’ve enjoyed our conversation and I greatly appreciate your dedication to the matter.
I can’t wait I hope Cherryland can do this you will have a lot of people willing to pay for it .